As the clock winds down until the execution of Tookie Williams I've decided to finally write my thoughts. First of all, if Tookie Williams has changed his ways and has helped keep people from joining gangs then I commend him. At the same time, just like Karla Faye Tucker, no good can make up for the capital murders they committed. Either they've forfeited their lives or not. If you do the time then you must fulfill the penalty. This isn't about closure for the victims' families or redemption for Williams but about justice. If a society has a death penalty then it must enforce it. I'm sure plenty of folks on death row have changed their ways, and again that's great, but it doesn't erase the crime they've committed.
May God have mercy on Tookie Williams (and us all) and may we remember the victims of his crime.
Posted by Tim at December 12, 2005 08:05 PMI've heard of "if you do the crime, you've got to do the time" but never ""if you do the time then you must fulfill the penalty". What the hell does that mean?
Sounds like more "wise" right-wing commentary in the spirit of Bushisms and other such ludicrous stupidity.
Does killing a criminal make you feel better? Is the base urge for retribution satisfied? Could you kill him yourself?
Any society that kills as a punishment for killing needs to think long and hard about the message they are trying to convey.
Posted by: not time at December 12, 2005 09:02 PMnot time,
Engaging in name calling does nothing for your cause. To answer your questions:
"Does killing a criminal make you feel better?"
Not really
"Is the base urge for retribution satisfied?"
It's not about retribution but about justice.
"Could you kill him yourself?"
It's not my job to execute the criminal but if it was then yes, I could.
"Any society that kills as a punishment for killing needs to think long and hard about the message they are trying to convey."
The message being conveyed is that if you MURDER then you forfeit your own life.
Posted by: Tim at December 12, 2005 09:30 PMWell Tookie will be the best kind of murderer soon....A DEAD ONE!!! GET THE NEEDLE FLOWING!!!
Posted by: at December 12, 2005 09:32 PMyour an idiot for one, if you know anythin about relegion u would know, that killin an criminal, which tookie is not, is incomplete justice...for those who kill crimincals have no faith, and thereofre they dont belive in the life after death, therefore they dotn belive tookie is goin to hell, and by killin him, they can only belive they are realsing him of his pains here in jail....and all that says is, they are helpin him by killin him.....the death penalty is wrong, when used by ppl who have no faith, and anyway hes innocent u dumbass
Posted by: mohamad at December 12, 2005 09:38 PMDeuteronomy 32:35 says Vengeance is Mine...
(verse 36 says) "For the Lord will judge His people and have compassion on His servants.
The death penalty does not make any sense to me. All it is to me is a state-approved murder. Murder is murder, and the Lord is not pleased with the state of Cali. killing one of his servants. No, Tookie was not always good, but we have ALL fallen short of God's glory.
i like that last comment good man
Posted by: mohamad at December 12, 2005 09:49 PMi wish you would let tookie live but who am i to judge killing one man for the life of anothern isnt that called murder also? after someone is executed the death certificate states cause of death as homacide So isnt that murder as well ??? GOD BE WITH YOU TOOKIE IN YOUR JOURNEY HOME
The Bible also says that the wages for sin is death. Williams will now have to answer to the Lord...our ultimate judge. Please do not quote the Bible out of context. Our constitution was written based on Biblical principles including the Ten Commandments, it is said to see how far away from that we have strayed. Pray for Williams do now blast our court system.
Posted by: Phil at December 12, 2005 10:26 PMJust think it could have been one of your family members that he wacked, shit you would want to do him in yourself in that case. so pack your bags tookie your going home.
Posted by: at December 12, 2005 10:31 PMThe Lord hates perverse lips
I don't mean to blast you with Scriptures. It's just that Williams has written books and donated money but unfortunately, that won't get him "home". The Lord said that if you confess with your lips and believe in your heart that I am Lord, you will be saved. Pray for his salvation in this late hour.
Posted by: Phil at December 12, 2005 10:37 PMIf the good lord forgives tookie williams sins then he'll forgive all those in charge of his death
Posted by: at December 12, 2005 10:39 PMHis death is decided by law, not by individuals. Our political system was designed for liberty and justice for all. We are all happy with the liberty part, but why do people struggle with justice?
Posted by: Phil at December 12, 2005 10:41 PMthat's wonderful that tookie donated money and has written books and even found the lord. but he still has to pay the price for his crime.
Posted by: at December 12, 2005 10:48 PMExactly my point
except for that.. I said he 'hasnt' found the Lord yet according to what I have read thus far. My point is that his good works will do nothing.
Well. For what its worth, I think that any execution is shameful, and disgusting.
To take the life of another is to play God. To suggest that the State has the right to play God is scary. Murder is tragedy, and I feel for the victims. But state sanctioned Murder is never acceptable or morally justifiable. In a country where you can buy your freedom, and those who are less fortunate cannot do so, and those people are the very ones who most need the help and support of those who have, this is not about justice at all. Your country needs to move on from this disgusting barbaric procedure and grow up.
I pray for the life that is about to be taken.
well i think you should life in prison. because he changed his life around. trying to get youth to stay away from gangs
Posted by: branden woods at December 12, 2005 10:55 PMi don't think people are struggling with justice. matter of fact there is not enough justice going on in this state there should be at least two or three more execution tonight now that would be justice. let's make a point you kill someone you die!!
Perfect examples of people who do not know the justice system. It is sad to read comments such as yours. Our laws were written based on Biblical principles, if that is barbaric to you then you are truly lost and need a Savior just as Tookie Williams and we all do. My prayers go up for you
Posted by: Phil at December 12, 2005 10:59 PMMy point was...justice is death in this situation...read carefully
Who has the right to impose that kind of justice except God himself??
Surely not the American government-or...God forbid, Arnold the terminator.
Post a comment when your more informed than just "the terminator"
Posted by: Phil at December 12, 2005 11:07 PMDo you not realise that to the rest of the world, your wonderful state is an actual laughing stock with such a man in office! It is like some kind of joke! Believe me, I have yet to find a person outside the state that considers anything that man has to say to be even worth listening to!
Posted by: Jay at December 12, 2005 11:10 PMi'll pray for tookie williams because if he has not found the lord after sitting in a prison cell for twenty years well that his fault. that means he has no remorce for what he has done. then he is a murder and must die
Posted by: at December 12, 2005 11:11 PMCongratulations on hitting an easy target....but who cares about him, his mistakes speak for themselves........we are talking about Tookie Williams on this sight.....get back on track
Posted by: Phil at December 12, 2005 11:12 PMto me it wasnt his color.. that got him where he is... but the fact he killed four innocent people..
Posted by: david at December 12, 2005 11:18 PMtookie took 4 lives in cold blooded murder and it shouldnt matter what color he is.. he committed a act that carries this penalty.. he should pay... this price.. I believe that tookie williams may have written books and talked to kids to keep them out of gangs, but the fact is that the kids in the gangs are still killing others.. and in some way those who built the organization are still responsible. the bloods and crips, are sadly responsible for young peoples lives being snuffed out.. and are a type of organized crime.. while mr williams has done a lot of good.. since incarceration, there is still the matter of these groups... I pray that a child/adult will leave these groups... so they dont follow in tookie's footsteps.. i feel sympathy.. on both sides of this issue... but cannot forget he stole four lives away.. I pray for those he leaves behind.. that they are comforted.. and that there will be peace after this execution.. it is a sad day for all... but dont make his good work.. a cause for more violence.. he wouldnt want that... thank you dave
Posted by david at December 12, 2005 11:16 PM
We are all made in His image and are held accountable to the same Law. AMEN!
Posted by: Phil at December 12, 2005 11:22 PMsorry hit the key several times, my prayers are that we each of us can come together and not separate.. remember the words of lincoln a nation divided cannot stand... and i say this a bit differently... we as a people divided cannot stand.. we need to love not hate.. each other.. please let this be the legacy of tookie williams..
Posted by: david at December 12, 2005 11:24 PMyea its always a race thing. bullshit the man is dumb and must pay so get over the poor blackman thing
Posted by: at December 12, 2005 11:25 PMI find it impossible to separate talking about a man facing execution from talking about the machine that will take his life. The governer may also be a separate issue, but he is also an inseperable part of this one too. Looking at one execution in isolation is a very easy way of avoiding the undeniable truth-namely that it is barbaric. Please don't reply with "well, an eye for an eye." Modern society is above that isn't it? Oh! I forgot! We are talking about the USA!
Posted by: Jay at December 12, 2005 11:27 PMdo you go to cal baptist david
Posted by: phil at December 12, 2005 11:27 PMdear tookie williams as your moment in time comes to a tragic end today.. may you have peace in your final moments... my prayers are indeed with you and yours... and all around the world.. touched by this... it is yet a tragedy in itself.. but the crime was a tragedy too ..... in time we will learn a different way.. i pray
Posted by: david at December 12, 2005 11:27 PMno am in a different state i live in the central states
Posted by: david at December 12, 2005 11:29 PMthe message attributed to phil above was mine
Posted by: david at December 12, 2005 11:30 PMCruel and unusual punishment set by the law, which is separate from choice of religion is on the books as the minute draws near for Tookie Williams.
The state of California will now, once again, claim another life but this one intentional. As prisons and courts have a huge imabalance in the production of justice, Americans still live like uncivilized savages.
Taking the life or the allowance of taking a life is murder. Plain and simple. The rest of the world, the majority of Americans and Californians have been with me for decades that the time has come to end senseless and unneccessary deaths.
The majority has a hard time speaking on the federal and state levels as politicians do a nice job of keeping the public out of the decision-making process. This is no different, just incredibly irreversable.
As the Governor murders Tookie, the case will never be solved, justice will not prevail and the American way will once again be stained.
Posted by: anna schaber at December 12, 2005 11:34 PMVery sad to see such a poorly put together and uninformed comment
but the people where on the decision-making process they are called the jury.
Posted by: at December 12, 2005 11:54 PMI am glad to see that there are some compassionate and caring people posting here. I agree with Anna, and also pray for another life, taken in the name of justice (revenge.)
Pre mediated murder, sactioned by the state is all that this is, as in all executions. A barbaric and prehistoric need for revenge.
May God be with this man tonight, innocent or guilty.
Hmmm... let me take you all, yes all of you who
read and commented back to the year before 1981
the year he was convicted by the US court system
and jury (i supposed 12 jury). Let's say i take
you to 1979 (perhaps 2 years was enough for the
justice system to apply the law to exonerate or
convict him and perhaps most of you all of you
were mature then to witness this.
I was in that motel when he started shooting my
family members...1 dead bleeding all over her
face, another 1 dead bleeding all over his torso,
another 1 bled to death then 3 more until the
motel office's wall and floor were crimson red in
just a couple of minutes. Before he pointed it
at me i managed to grab one and shoot him at his
torso. He's dead. Justice is done by me.
But i decided to ran away instead before he shoot
me. You see i want to let our court system, the
judge and jury judge him for right or wrong. 2
years later he was convicted. 24 years later he
was executed. Justice is done by the system.
But i was not in that motel and i was not sitting
in the jury seats listening to the defense lawyer
and prosecutor for days and hours seeing crime
scene horrid pictures and objects. Still 2 year
after the killing they convicted him and 26 year
after he was executed. Justice according to our
court system.
During that 26 years, many changes occured, a new generation grow up, people no longer remember much murder that took place 26 years ago, some turn bad some for good.
But some voice he was innocent--he never killed 6
people in 1979. O, the blood of this innocent be
upon the judge and those juries because he was
mistakenly executed. Justice was not served.
But i was there and you said it was not right
that i shot him then. Will you let me shoot your
brother then...your sister...your kids...your
Dad, Mom...or your grandparents...and let me go
innocent. You may...but it's not in your nature
to stand still while a vicous wild cat
relentlessly attacks you.
You may still insist...well there is good land
where you can show your love for another man's
killing heart. Will you take your family member
to Irag and wear bright shirts printed "I am an
American" and parade there to find kidnapers.
This will make you very much happy. Because,
you see...not only you will show your love for
the killer of your, yes, your family but you also
remove yourself from the tainted court system and
the capital punishment of the men who end the
life of your family members.
One more option still avail. If you still feel
to incarcerate the men who terminate your family
members. You could and let them write a book for
26 years about how merciful you are. Because you
are.
Finally more people will find how right you
are in defending any murderer from being
murdered. Perhaps you will create a utopia of no
murder will fall upon murderer.
Posted by: at December 13, 2005 11:52 AM
